I've made some updates on my map that contain several modifactions respecting recent clues from the show. It took some time to incorporate the new cable map seen on the show and I think I made some bold changes that I need to comment. But first of all huge thanks to John Locke 007 (formerly known as MikeQuinn007) and Maverick for their great ideas helping me to improve the map!
Changes:
- A 1x1 mile grid has been added to the map (idea by John Locke 007 and Maverick). It is based on Juliets statement that the Hydra island is two miles offshore (see S03E07) and the assumption that the Hydra island is the one seen in the South of the map.
- I've resized the Hydra island to a size that is roughly twice the size of Alcatraz using the above mentioned scale.
- John Locke 007 found a circle in one of the screenshots showing the northern part of the island that I've added to the map
- I've done some repositioning of the locations to incorporate all clues provided by the different maps of the show. The major change is that I've placed the Flame station to the crossed out station mark on the blastdoor map. There are several hints that the 'alleged location of the Flame' is wrong (see The Flame). Thanks to Maverick for this idea.
Any feedback is very welcome and thanks again for the great contributions!
167 comments:
Very Interesting. I uploaded an image showing my comments and suggestions.
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/8245/lostislandmap31thoughtsiw1.png
It also seems that Ben was looking straight down the dock towards land (towards swan?) during the failsafe.
Maverick.
Hey,
Again...great job.
Just one comment:
The scale on the cable map seems to show that the Flame is 5 miles away but yours shows it to be a half mile away.
1) map that shows that the scale is 4 miles long:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:3x12_ParAvion_Cabling_Map.jpg
2) map that shows flame station is 5 miles away:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Dhr_map_zn.jpg
@ Maverick
Your link doesn't seem to be working.
@ Dreamer. The link works for me, you just have to copy and paste it.
Hi,
thanks for your suggestions!
Dreamer, you're right. It should be 5 miles between the Flame and the security barrier. I'll correct that. My grid also needs some adjustment. Here's a clickable link for Maverick's suggestions. Thanks for your input!
Maverick, also thanks for your suggestions! Here are my comments (hope I haven't missed anything):
- Pala Ferry: I also thought of this position before. But it would be odd to travel from the Pearl to the Pala Ferry (nearly passing Othersville) to get to Othersville. Even crossing the Arrow would be odd... But hey, it's Lost. :) Assuming that the dock of the Pala Ferry doesn't point exactly right to the East but is perpendicular to the coastline, the Swan would be ~ 5. I don't think this is contradicting to Ben looking 6. And it also would be handy to have restocking facility and staging area close to the Pala Ferry. Also see the small cross mark in this screenshot.
- Othersville, Flame, Staff, Pearl, Arrow and pit: I can see your reasoning for this items and I agree that they should be moved to your suggested position.
- Blastdoor map (BDM) topography: I also think that not all lines on the BDM are isobars. Some of them could possibly show coastlines. I haven't included the Cerberus vents (CV) on my map because of all the '?' and 'highly unlikely' marks.
- Black Rock: It looks to me like the dot before the 'Black Rock' note on the BDM is a reference point that was set somewhere on the BDM (though, I haven't found it yet). All we know is that the Black Rock should be close to the antenna and located in the dark territory.
- Danielle's hideout: I placed it in the area Sayid's pointing to in S01E18 (see this post).
- Drains: I think the drains are either on the ridge you've marked or the one below.
- Gaging station: You can see the gaging station symbol in the S03E02 screenshot, shortly before Sayid moves his hand into the view to make the mark on the map (see screenshot). It could be the 'Flame' labelled station on the BDM.
- Dark Territory: Well, I think it's just a name used by Danielle and it doesn't necessarily mean it's the area of the highest Smokey activity. The Black Rock, the radio tower (both mentioned in the season one finale) and Danielle's hideout (stated by Sayid) should be in the Dark Territory.
- Radio tower: I don't take any information into account provided by the Lost Experience because TPTB were not involved in it. All we know from the show is that it's close to the Black Rock.
- Roger's map: Totally agree with your placement
LS
Hmmm, I've just revisited the HD screenshot of the cable map of Lostpedia. Applying the shown scale, Othersville would have an area of approximately 5 miles x 3 miles. I think this is too big (compared to the S03E01 screenshots). There's something printed before 'miles' at the scale so maybe its some prefix (like '10^-1 miles'). What do you think?
Plus, I also made an image with some thoughts and modified positions.
About the Hydra location:
S02E07
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/7898/2cap349rx0.png
S03E07
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/truffula/Season%20Three/alcatrazinback.jpg
It's the same island in the background. The island is probabily the Hydra.
Maybe from de S02E07 you know where they are, and pin point the Hydra.
Lost-pt.com/forum
To (to): I think the island in the season 2 screenshot was a production error, and even if it wasn't it most likely is the Eastern island on Rousseau's maps. I also think Station C3 - Weather Control, is on that island. Since the tailies moved inland at the point it help pinpoint their path to main beach camp.
Maverick.
Hi To,
I also thought about it but it's just too big to be twice the size of Alcatraz AND to be two miles away from the main island. I'm pretty sure that the two screenshots are showing the same island. Though, I'm not sure if it was supposed to be there in the screenshot of S02 (like Maverick said before: production error) but if it was, I would tend to say that it's much too big on Rousseau's map.
Maverick, the C3 station could be on this island. At least we know: There has to be another island of interest according to the statement in one of the last ABC podcasts which said that they (TPTB) knew from the very beginning that there were at least two other islands close to the main island.
Nice work on the map. However, I do have a suggestion you might want to consider as more clues are revealed and you are adding on. On the blast door map, it says that The Staff station is incompatible with 108, do not attempt to journey.
So, by your map, you put the staff station at about 7 miles. The average man runs 10mph, so in 108 minutes, he can go 18 miles. Lets assume he cuts it in half, the way there, and the way back. That would be 9 miles one way. He would be within range, according to your map.
Now, you can say, the average speed of a man can vary.
But, how would he be able to survey arrow and flame? According to your map, arrow and flame are much further than Staff.
If you were to bring in the Flame and Arrow, it would form more of a complete circle as well.
He could have been wrong of course, but its just an observation of mine.
I just thought of something. He may not have surveyed Arrow or Flame. I was forgetting that he did in fact get the symbol and name of The Staff, so he could have done the same thing with Flame and Arrow.
haha sorry about that. mavericks modifications look good.
Thanks for your comment, oFXo. I totally agree with your calculations and also your conclusion. I would add that the jungle and the mountains might have slowed him down on his trek to the Staff. But I think you're absolutely right and it seems as if he never had been at the flame either.
I've been working on my map lately, trying to incorporate some ideas from the discussion with Mike and Maverick (see Pala Ferry comments) as well as some topographical aspects of the BDM. It looks like all stations except for C3 and C4 are located in the central valley (or Radzinsky didn't manage to finish the topography on the left half on his map). So I've done some experiments with compressing the BDM horizontally but the result looks somehow weird (see map).
Could you put the (former) location of the submarine and its dock on there. It's quite possible it docked on the river.
Could you also put the location of "the cable" on your map?
Yes, Sir! :)
At the moment, I think the cable is somewhere at the eastern coast but I've to watch Catch-22 again to narrow its position down. And I think the submarine dock is somewhere in a river or lake close to Othersville.
I'll respect these two locations in the next update.
Hey guys, I decided to try making my own map, this is an early test. What do ya think?
Lost Map - Early Test
I still need to add coast lines and beach, ocean, and rivers etc. The NE section needs to be made smaller. The hilly areas(orange) and mountains will be 3-D.
And those aren't the textures i'll be using, this was just for effect.
Losty, what program do you use for your textures and 3d effects? I think you said Corel?
Thanks,
Maverick.
Hey Maverick,
Your map looks pretty cool. The more maps the better! Losty did a great job not only on his map, but also with this site. It's awesome.
I don't know what texure Losty uses for mountains, but I think he uses PhotoShop.
I thought making a map would be pretty idea cool, too. That was about 7 weeks and about 175 - 200 manhours ago. It's a lot of work, but fun. I'm still not done, but I should be done this week. I'm not sure I would have got into making a map if I knew how much work it would be (just joking)
My map attempts to recreate the actual map, with out using texures or a 3-D perspective. I don't know how much time your type of map will take. It may not take nearly as long as mine, as I'm bogged down with inate details.
I'm glad I made my map. The best part was developing a much better understanding of how to use Photo-Paint (Corel's version of Paintshop). Now I'm learning to make a blog so I can actually post my map.
Good Luck,
Mike :)
Hey guys,
looks very good for a start. I think it isn't as accurate as Mike's map (preview) but he has spent so much time on every detail that it will be the most precise map by far. And like Mike mentioned above: The more maps the better!
Well, getting good textures is quite a problem. Either they aren't free or they look crappy. So the very best thing would be to make your own ones. I have used only three textures (ocean, mountains and jungle) and the ocean was just one huge tile with a fat Gaussian blur on it (and some airbushing). PSP6 has a neat feature to convert a part of an image to a seamless pattern. I used it for the jungle and added a little random noise to let it look less artificial. For the beaches I've used the airbrush tool. The most time consuming thing is to get the outlines of the island and mountains and to make the mountains look somehow realistic.
Making a map is really fun! But I've to admit that I initially didn't made it to have some eye-candy map but because I disagreed with most of the other maps around in the net (i.e. the postion of the locations on it). At that point, I wasn't aware of Yung's maps (only his 3d model on blackrock.nl) and I still think his maps are the best ones in the net (though, I disagree with some of his locations).
Mike and Maverick, you don't HAVE TO make a blog for your map because I would be very happy to host it here (*hint, hint, nudge, nudge*)! :) Though, I understand that you want to have something individual to host your "baby" and to take the credit for it. I would love to link to your site and to give any support with building or promoting it!
BTW, I'm using Paint Shop Pro 6 (from the pre-Corel era). I think I should add a small PSP6 logo to my page. :)
Don't worry, I plan to host it here :) I think the lost map making "community" is too small for a seperate website for each map.
I look forward to seeing Mike's map. The only reason i'm making my own is, out of your 2 maps, one is more "accurate" but older, and the other is newer but sacrifices accuracy for detail.
Your old map updated with Hydra, and the textures from your new map would be ideal (and is exactly what i'm trying to create, but im not as good :) )
I also like Yung's maps, but he seems focused on his doomed-to-fail lost mod, and hasn't really done anything new with his maps, or figured out locations for a few month's now. I hope he can find his path again.
Anyway, enjoy tonight's episode, it's on in 3 hours here :)
Maverick.
That's great! And I know what you mean. I've already seen the huge loss of accuracy when I made my new "fancy" map. I've still a layer containing the "old" mountains in my map helping me to get the right positions in some cases.
One thing I've to add to my previous comments is that I've worked with all of the above mentioned programs before (Corel Photo-Paint, Adobe Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro) because I had a job at a company making documentations and brochures when I was a student. Concerning functionality, they're all great and pretty much same (so it doesn't matter which one you use). I prefer PSP because of it's easy handling and I really got used to it over the years.
Yeah, guys. Enjoy tonight's episode. I'm looking forward to learn some more about the parachutist...
It would seem to me that the Staff station needs to be fairly close to the beach encampment as both in this past episode with Juliette and Sun going there and when Kate, Claire and Rousseau went their it didn't take them that long compared to when they went to look for the balloon or going to the Zeke spot.
I think the notation on the BDM about distances not working with 108 minutes is more to warn a single hatch ocupant should something happen to the other one. You gotta remember that logically if there were two occupants like Rad and Kelv one of them could go wander the island for several days leaving the other one free to push the button. I haven't read any good explanation as to why they mad the BDM invisible or at least worked on it with out the black lights on. I can see that they probably wanted it to be secret if the hostiles got in. Also I have a problem with people saying that Rad and Kelv were Darhma. If so why would they need to make a map.
Do people really believe that Jin, Sun and Sayid sailed all the way around the island to this pala ferry? I would put the dock where the fake camp was and move the satue and a fake camp a bit farther south. I also would suggest that there be more than one dock around the island for this pala ferry. I don't think they sailed past the reef looking rock jetty thing that seems to be where the french wrecked as their voyage to the dock didn't entail them navigating through dangerous waters. People commented on the direction that Ben rides the boat to the dock, I wasn't able to surmount which way this was but it would make sense that having just escaped he meet up with the others at the fake camp which they were vaccating and then boat to the dock. If his approach is the opposite of what im thinking it is he must have gone to othersville first.
Im thinking about the concept of the 6 stations as mentioned in orientation videos. The number of stations you have doesn't seem to match this. Seeing as we now know the scratched out hatch must have been the flame and the presumed location of the Flame to be wrong. This abandoned hatch I believe to be the door. Although its likely that the "Door" symbol was put their by the others, seems like a silly name to me. It wouldn't make sense really to install such a huge door into the side of the cliff, it had obviously began to have been dug out being as there was some space behind it, for the only purpose of decieving a small group of plane crash survivors. I don't think that the small circle on the road map marks the yet unknown hatch.
The radio tower, RV station, "weather control" I believe are all the C3 station as they are all up in the mountains by the black rock and the dark territory, this being the only station we have yet to see. I have serious issues with this show and how the losties don't seem to ask the right questions, they were all about finding the tower in the first bit of the first season and then Sayid wanted to map the shores neither of which they have done as of yet.
Furthermore C4 on the BDM is most likely the Hydra station because of the zoological notations being made near it, well at least in that general corner of the map. Everyone seems pretty settled on the location of the hydra based on rousseau drawings and such. I don't really believe that they show that island but I do think the location works with how long it took Sawyer and Kate to get back. Remember that on the BDM the hatches are marked with dotted lines I would argue that this means that with what ever intel Kelv and Rad were going on when making the map this is where they thought they were. They probably assumed the stations all fit nicely with the Dharma logo. Some might argue the dotted lines mean they merely couldn't get inside the hatches but don't forget that they were obviously wrong about the location of the Flame. So yeah I would make C4 the Hydra station.
My final thought is on the island marked Alex, I originally thought that this would have been the island where the Hyrda would have been though the scale doesn't seem to work with what we know. One must think about why Rousseau would come to believe that Alex was located on this island although I wouldn't really trust Rousseau too much as in 16 years she really hasn't explored the island very thoroughly. If I was her I would be like fricking sniping an other or two off everyonce and a while.
So I hope everyone likes my ideas about the map and takes them into consideration. This was pretty fun coming up with my own ideas about the show and stuff and reading stuff on like wikipedia and that. So yeah I can't wait to hear what everyone thinks.
Curtis
Hi Curtis,
thanks for your great comment! I like your ideas and have some comments
I totally agree that Radzinsky didn't have to return in 108 minutes because Kelvin was pushing the button in the meantime. Kelvin also said something like "Now it's your job to push the button" to Desmond hinting that Radzinsky could have been some a boss of Kelvin and let him do most of work while he was exploring the island.
This are my observations about the distance to the Staff:
- Kate and Claire started at daytime and found Rousseau in the evening / at dusk. The travelled to the Staff in the dark and when they left it again it was again daytime.
- Juliet and Sun left at night and got there at night. When they left it was daytime.
So my guess would be that they travelled some hours and that the Staff truely lies beyond the 108 minute border. But the distance isn't the reason why I'm thinking Radzinsky never has been there. The stations are more or less well hidden and his marks might be based on documents or things he had heard. I've some sort of a theory (it's more a bunch of ideas) about it that I've posted before in the Pala Ferry comment thread. So here we go (slightly modified):
I always wondered why Radzinsky edited the 'communication-part' out of the Swan orientation film. Now I think, it could be that Dharma knew about the Others when they made the film and this knowledge could be even associated with the incident (which I don't think was the Purge). Maybe the Others somehow infiltrated/manipulated the Swan crew (using computer communication) and sabotaged the Dharma experiments on the magnetic properties of the island leading to the incident.
Years after that (and after the Purge) Radzinsky came to the island and some time later Kelvin arrived. Radzinsky started to explore the island, while Kelvin's job was to push the button. On one of his trips he got in contact with the Others and they conned him to believe that they are the good guys and they "befriended". The Others did that because they only had limited knowledge about the Swan (statement by TPTB) and weren't able to seize it during the Purge (Smokey ?!?). Maybe Radzinsky wanted to leave the island (cabin fever) and thought that the Others could help him with that. Well, I've no idea about his deeper motivations because they could have been complex as well as the way the Others conned him (as usual on Lost :)) but for the Others this was the best option to get the Swan under control without having a fight.
During his time as a mole in the Swan, Radzinsky edited the 'communication-part' from the Swan orientation footage, hid it in the Arrow and draw the BDM. These actions perfectly hint that he WANTED former Swan inhabitants to get in contact with other people on the island (not necessarily "Others"). But similar to Juliet he started to realize that they never let him go. So he commited suicide because this was the final solution for him to leave the island (or for the happy ending: he faked his suicide and the Others brought him home).
Yeah, I also came to the conclusion that the Pala Ferry is somewhere else and that there are more docks on the island. I will update my map soon, in the meantime you could take a look at the preliminary versions above (e.g. this or that). There are some discussion about the location of the Pala Ferry here and I think it has to be somewhere in the North of the island.
The door logo and name is Fan-stuff and was never really part of Lost officially.
SPOILER/RUMOURS
According to some rumours posted at DarkUFO's we could possibly see more of the fake camp in the future and that it actually has a real purpose.
End of SPOILER/RUMOURS
Which circle on the Road Map do you mean? We have the (presumably) Swan on it with a Dharma logo, so I guess any other station would also be illustrated with a logo. But the road surely seems to lead up the mountains and maybe to the "aborted #7 station".
I've to admit that I never really thought about a concept behind the numbers of the stations. It's quite confusing because the C notated numbers are different to the station numbers (The Swan == #3 != C3). Then we have the CV (Cerberus Vent) numbers and the H-numbers (maybe Hatches ???). I guess I've to think about it - maybe there's a pattern. Great theories about the C3 and C4 stations but I've to think about it some more.
Totally agree to your statement about Rousseau. I don't trust her either. She and (like you mentioned) the survivors should be more curious about their environment and start to explore it. But I guess they are just too busy in fighting with their daily problems in being alone/living in a savage community and with the Others.
Hey Curtis,
I don't think the Staff is close to camp. Remember they left the Staff just after sunrise, and they walked during the night. I (IMHO) say they walked at least 6 hours at AVG 1.5 miles an hour. That puts the Staff as far as 9 miles away.
I agree with you about Radzinsky and Kelvin, but who knows how long Radzinsky was there and how much of the map he made before Kelvin arrived (if any).
It's likely DHARMA separated each experiment from each other, so likely no single worker would know every location (hence the map)
We know DHARMA is working on meteorology, psychology, parapsychology, zoology, electromagnetism, and utopian social(ism). It seems likely they would have a station for each. Plus they have a station each for: Medical, Communications, and Transportation. And there is the oft seen "Line" logo on the shark and other items. It seems DHARMA has many more then 6 facilities on the island.
On your other point, you need to remember how far the boat can go in a day and a half, going much faster then a person. There is no way the statue and fake camp are that close to the survivors beach.
Our current thoughts place Pala Ferry at the North part of the island (not reflected in current map, as it's hard to be certain)
I very much doubt C3 is both a Weather Control station and a Parapsychology Station. It doesn't fit with DHARMA project isolation. The strange weather, black rock, visions, monster, and numbers (not to mention rousseau, quarantine etc) are the main mysteries of lost, I doubt they would put all that into a single location.
Hydra on the East coast doesn't fit with of observations we have seen of they area, but the zoology on the BDM does match up with "Alex" but that's probably an error and they meant the bigger Hydra island we know and love :)
My personal theory is that Rousseau didn't make those maps, she just stole them from the Black Rock, and added notes over it. Evidenced by the artistic compass rose, and the whale drawing. (trademarks of the 1800's and not a late 20th century scientist)
These are just my thoughts anyway, im glad you shared yours, and I hope you continue to do so. It's hard for only a few people to wrap our brains around lost ;)
btw, is anyone else not able to see the "recent comments" anymore?
-- I just noticed Losty beat me to the reply :) So we probably covered the same thing, sorry ;) --
Maverick.
Hey guys,
I think the C4 and especially C3 station are actually in the mountains so I don't think that the C4 is the Hydra. Though, I think it could be possible that the Hydra is in the East but it isn't on the map. I've tried several things with the blast door map and I've come to the conclusion that it's very likely that the Hydra isn't shown on the BDM. And IMO, the C4 is the RVS facility (maybe a smokey control station ?!?).
The C3 could be the radio tower (also see the "wavelenght" metaphor on the BDM). And "weather control" sounds very pontificated. It's just weather forecasting :) So my guess would be that it was a meteorolical research station before it was used for purposes other than intended (as a radio tower). But this is just my interpretation and I could be very wrong.
Maverick, I think you're absolutely right about Rousseau's map. Classical map style.
Yeah, the "recent comments" widget sometimes doesn't work for some hours. The code looks fine to me so I guess it's a problem with blogspot. The misfit had major problems with his script because the blogspot server messed something up. But well, I shouldn't complain... it's free. :)
Enjoy tonight's episode. I have a feeling it's going to rival TMFT. Good chance we will be revising our locations and theories a bit after this one :)
(just over 2 hours to go!!)
Maverick.
HEy Maverick,
This is JohnLocke007 (I changed my username to my new blog site)
I'm now RunLostiesRun,
Anyway, I finally finished my Blogsite and posted my map. Let me know what you think.
Thanks,
mike.
RunLostiesRun
Can't wait for tonights show, but I have to wait an hour past you. LOL
WOW, mike thats awesome. Very nice old look to it, almost like you'd expect to find it on the island :)
Are you going to put locations on that map, or text from rousseau's documents?
Tonights episode was seriously twisted man! The implications are... wow... Enjoy :) and AWESOME map !
Maverick.
Hey guys!
Whoa, that was a really awesome episode. The Sawyer-Cooper connection was pretty obvious but the way it was brought to a showdown was perfect. And pretty much information about the island...
Mike, your map and your blog is fantastic. I'm sorry that I haven't found the time to post a comment yet but I promise that I will by the end of this week. But don't mind to ask something, I'll always find some minutes for a quick answer.
Hey guys,
Wow, That last show was great. They are answering so many questions, so fast. I think Locke lives because the wound is around his left kidney. But since that was removed, the wound isn't mortal. Pretty smart to remove an organ that a gunshot to it would cause you to bleed to death or die from infection, and then have someone shoot you there. LoL.
I finally got around to publishing the clues and temp. location of the fusalage. Let me know what you think.
Mike
Hey Mike,
The episode was really great. I think Locke will live too, he is just to damn important to this show. The best theory i've read is that the (original) Others (Richard,Jacob) are from the Black Rock, and are somewhat immortal. Jacob did seem to look like a pirate and his cabin was really old looking.
It's hard to tell where the Others 1st camp/ruins, 2nd camp, and Jacob's cabin is located.
On Ben's birthday, Roger asks Ben to go with him to deliver supplies to Pearl station, and then head to ??Mesa,mensa?? to drink beer. From the background it's obviously near the survivors beach. I was wondering though.. how did Ben get back to the barracks? It seems he got back really fast, I doubt he went on a 2 day hike in a gas mask. Did he use another vehicle (if so why not use the one he had).
I'll have to rewatch to remember everything.
Btw, your Blog looks good. Nice first start, it's been awhile since i've seen the Pilot. I'll have to watch that again too.
Maverick.
Hey guys,
sorry for the late response, I had some network problems but now (with a new router) everything works fine. The last episode was really great and I also hope that Locke will survive. Two uber-mega-fantanstic (sorry, I'm lacking of superlatives) episodes in a row and the finale is still to come...
It was the first episode I saw without watching any trailers before and that's a really cool experience. And the Jacob-scene was somehow mind-blowing. I'm still VERY confused about it (feels like watching a David Lynch movie) and can't stop thinking about it. Totally awesome!
And yeah, once again the famous Jurassic Park valley. I think it's quite close to the survivors beach camp (Hurley mentioned that it's close when he found the bus and Roger) but it's really odd how Ben got back to Othersville that fast. Didn't Roger mention that they were on the way to the Pearl? Guess, I've to rewatch it.
Mike, great work. I'll take a closer look to it an post a comment on your site.
Wow,
Now thats a nice FavIcon. Good job, I added a post that tries to resolve the Panoramic view. When you get a chance, let me know what you think.
Mike
Thanks, Mike! Very good analysis of the panoramic shot!
Hey Losty,
I posted a revised General Map at my Runlostiesrun.blogspot.com
I would be interested in what you think, especially concerng the bottom section.
Thanks,
Mike
Hi Guys,
Great work with the maps. I've been keeping an eye on your progress for quite a while.
Anyway, Ben's map in 'Through the Looking Glass', seems to throw up a few problems with all the fan created lost island maps I've ever seen.
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:3x22_intercept_map.jpg
1. You can clearly see the Barracks and the Pearl Station indicated.
2. Normally the top of a map indicates North, but that really messes things up with this new map. Ben's map clearly indicates the Fuselage crash site being on the North shore.
I think this is gonna cause a lot of headaches...
On a side note, I really believe the scale on your map is too small.
But that is just my opinon...
Anyway, keep up the good work...
Regards,
Georgie
Hey Georgie,
thanks for your comment. I'm currently checking what we can learn from Ben's map and there seems to be a lot of things not matching up with the clues we've collected. But I'm pretty sure that everything can be explained in a way.
Great job.
Thanks for all efforts.
I guess soon enough we will see the Looking Glass station as well.
I don't know if it was mentioned before but I would like to know if the map is done as raster or some kind of terrain elevation software.
Hi Anon,
I'm glad you like my work! I'm using Paint Shop Pro 6 for my maps.
Wow! Incredible map work and blog! Thanks for sharing the maps. :-)
Ey, i´m from Spain and i have been reading this works for months. They are very good. It was sad when they showed us Ben´s map. I hope you can macht all this stuff!
Hi guys,
thanks for your comments. Sorry for the lack of updates but I've some problems with my ISP at the moment so I can only post from computers of friends. But I'll use the time to make some updates on my map and will post it as soon as it's finished.
I think there will be a reasonable explanation for Ben's map and there are some very good approaches to solve this mystery. I'm personally much more concerned about the direction the show will take but I think I should simply keep my faith in TPTB and that they'll do a great job.
Greetings to Spain, Anon!
Hey Losty,
Sorry to hear about your ISP problems. I'm still trying to figure out Bens's map. I think it may have something to do with him getting up and getting coffee between him drawing lines. (He draws one line, gets up to get coffee, and then returns to draw the second line). I don't know how that could affect it, but who knows?
Anyway, I'm making a lot of progress using my database of mountain profiles. I think you'll be very surprised when you see my map. (I was very wrong about the Barrack's Location). If you don't mind, could you let me know what episode your screen shot of the Swan is from? The sceen shot is of the view from the Swan side door. You use it in your clues section. Thanks
Mike
Losty,
I forgot to tell you. I know you are using a different Operating System now. I just wanted to let you know that I don't see your recent comments. It just says 'more'. I'm using win98 with Firefox. Just thought I would let you know.
Mike
Hey Mike,
thanks for alerting me about this. I also just noticed that the text of the 'recent comments' widget is gone (also with other browsers). Hmmm, maybe Blogger has changed some properties of their comments data structure or something is just temporarily screwed up. I'll fix this asap. It's really a pity with my ISP. I've been waiting now for 6 weeks to get DSL in my new appartment. They told me on the hotline yesterday that it'll be up next Monday but I won't believe it till it's there (and working)...
The screenshot from the Swan station showing the mountains is from an early season 2 episode when they leave/enter the station through the side entrance. Sorry, but I can't access my screenshots at the moment (because I'm not sitting in front of my own computer) so I can't give you a more precise information. It could be "Everybody hates Hugo".
I'm looking forward to see your map!
Hey Losty,
Thanks for the info on the Swan. You were right, it is from ' Everybody Hate Hugo'. Good luck on your DSL.
Thanks again,
Mike
P.S.
I still have quite a lot of work to do before my map will be complete, but if you like, I could E-mail you what I have located so far ( I don't want to post it until it's complete). The Barracks location will blow your mind!!
Hey Mike,
finally, I've got DSL and everything up and working. :D
I've changed my recent comments widget and I hope everything works fine now (I've only tested it for Firefox 2 and Opera 9.21).
Awesome map.
I hope to leverage it for a puzzle after people accept my invitation.
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=c9fa6917-a3e4-4f82-a39b-661cce7393fd
Namaste!
Hey losty, It' been such a long time. Are you still interested in LOST mapping? I actually spent an amazing amount of time references and cataloging different mountians and locations into a database (about 500 screen shots). It gave me a really good idea about where everyting is. What's amazing is that that except for the Swan (built only because of the unusual EMT in that location) all the other Stations follow a straight line. Anyway, I would love to hear back from you. I changed my Site to "The LOSTmap" and you can reach it at http://thelostmap.blogspot.com/
again,
hope eveything is ok
Hey Mike,
I've been very busy at work and that's the reason why I didn't spent much energy and time on doing something for my site. I did some further development on my map but I didn't manage to reach a consensus on it regarding all the hints we've got. So I put all further development on ice until some great inspiration hit me like a lighting or we finally get more information in season 4. I'm counting the days... :)
Today started my holiday (tomorrow will be my first day off at the new job, yippie), so I'll relax some days and go party with some friends. So everything is fine and it's good to hear from you again!
Well, I've taken a short look at your new locations map and I need some time to understand it. I'll post my questions as soon as I've written them down. What do you prefer: Should I post them here, at your site or write an email?
Let me know if I can link your site from a post or the link section.
You can post at my site. I think it allow's posts. If you have a problem then just e-mail the points. The site is not complete yet, and I will be posting a revised map. Any input or ideas you have would be great. But remember, I threw all my preconcieved idea's about where location's where and just let the cards fall where they may, so to speak. I used screen shot and dialog only to locate items. My second map, which I will post tonight, will have a volcano/mountain that isn't on the original map. I sure the Island has changed since the origianal map, and my map tries to depict them.
Anyway, good to hear from you.
Mike
Oh, as far as Linking, that would be great. Thanks. I will try to do the same when my site is better organized.
Hey Losty,
Sounds like you had a blast over the holidays.
Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but I decided to post the answers since I figure a lot of people will have the same question. Go to my site and go to the Reference tab. I tried to explain it as best as I could to a general audience. If you have specific quesions, please feel free to ask.
Thanks again for your time in reviewing my map.
Mike
Awesome map LostySmurf, I'm hoping to use it as a working base for the Lost mod I'm working on. It's for a free game called "Stranded 2" that's a 3D first-person desert island survival game.
Now I'm not sure if you could manage it, but do you think you could knock up a very basic version of your map. Like this one but instead of 3D/bevel type shading, everything gets brighter the higher it is. I could then import it easily into the game :) thanks
Dave
Hi Dave,
I'm glad you like my map and of course you can use it for your game. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to make a height map of it. Is there any technique for that (using common GIMP, PaintShopPro or Photoshop filter) you would recommend? For the map you've posted above I simply used an 'outer-bevel' filter.
I was wondering when this would be updated again? I studied the map and I didn't see "The Looking Glass" station anywhere. I also didn't see where we think the chord that Sayid found.
I found this very helpful though, thank you!!
Hi ceejiesqueejie85,
I'm working on an update and I'll publish it soon (at least a preliminary version). Sorry for the lack of updates.
Hey Losty, Just wanted you to know your map was shown on TV to thousands (possibly millions) of people.
Watch Sky One's recap episode on darkufo's main page.
Anonymous.
Hi Anonymous,
that's totally awesome! The director recently asked me to use my map but I wasn't aware that the show already aired. So thanks for the info!
Great maps, by FAR the best ones I've seen. However, have you thought about WHERE the island is?!? This is what I have been consumed with most recently. Although everyone refers to the island as being in the Pacific, I have come to the conclusion that it just might be in the Indian Ocean. More specifically, SW of Madagascar, in the Natal Basin - also explaining where it was said the plane was "found". Anyway, just thought you may have given it some thought, and would share....
Hi dlang12,
I'm glad you like my map. The exact location of the island is one of the major mysteries so I guess it could be anywhere. Maybe the end of season 2 (with the guys in the arctic station) has some significance. Anyway, the only thing I would bet on is that it's somewhere where we wouldn't expect it.
Hey LostSmurf,
I just find this screenshot at docarzt's blog.
http://www.docarzt.com/blast-door.jpg
It's a screenshot of the Blast Door Map from the video game and it seems to have 3 new places on it!!!
Hydra Station and Looking Glass is on it. The other one is not so clear...
Here is a more clear screeshot:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R6eLh8BE3-I/AAAAAAAATF8/JCCYfSSbuj8/s1600-h/game1.jpg
You can see:
Hydra at lower right
Looking Glass at lower left
Palla Ferry at upper left
Barracks between arrow and C3
Under deleted station says: "Possible Orchid Station"
There are also some others transcripts near Hydra,Looking glass, flame station and C3 that i can't read.
So as they said at blue ray extras the BDM has more info to reveal :)
I was going to mention this (saw it at losttv-forum) but im not so sure about it. It's from the lost video game trailer and it looks like it was done by a 4 year old in MS-paint (the additions)
Anonymous.
Hi cypher,
wow, thanks for the screenshot. I've discussed with Mike about the statement on the Blu-Ray some time ago and this just might be it. I guess the official video game will be canon with the show so I would consider it as a true hint. At first glance, everythings seems (more or less) feasible. Though, I would have expected some items (e.g. the Looking Glass) to be somewhere else and I have to reposition some things on my map... :)
Something else I noticed was in a new promo for "Confirmed Dead", Sawyer is asking Locke if the Barracks are "due south", then why are they going north? Locke mentions the cabin (Jacob). This would make since with the new game blast door map since the barracks would not be on the upper north of the island, but more south-east. How does this play out with the new positions and the Season 3 opener of flight 815's crash? Wouldn't the crash sites have to be moved a little too? What do you think?
Hi Anon,
since I've seen Ben's map in last season's finale I'm trying to figure out how all the hints can be combined to a reasonable picture. Even if we assume that only the S03E01 opener and Ben's map are the only true hints, it doesn't seem to make any sense at the moment. There are a lot of red herrings and obvious misdirections (like in the beginning of last season's finale when the Losties were leaving the beach camp having the ocean on the right and in the next scene it was on the left hand side) and I guess many statement about directions made by characters are kind of subjective. :)
I haven't seen the new promo yet but it sounds as if we'll get some more clues in tonights show.
After watching the show last night, I stand corrected about what Sawyer said... the were going EAST! And if I am not mistaken, they were traveling East from the cockpit, so are the barracks on the south side of the island? That doesn't match up with the new blast-door map (game version) close to the Arrow?!?!?!
Great episode! Yeah, I got that line but let me first repeat some clues we've got from past episodes:
- They found the Flame following a bearing of 305. Though, we cannot be 100% sure where they started to apply this bearing (it's likely to be the Pearl or the beach camp).
- The cable map shows the Flame and the barracks. The Flame is somewhat NE of the barracks.
So in conjunction with the things we've learned from the last episode (barracks are S and Jacob's cabin is E) I would tend to say that the cockpit crash site is somewhere north of the barracks. Sounds weird but I have no other idea at the moment. What do you think?
Just to think outside the box... Sayid said that ture north and magnetic north are different on the island. So what if the maps we have been looking at off of the show have the correct north setting? From the season 3 opener, we also know that the barracks are somewhat close to a coastal part of the island. I am truely lost in the directions. Is there a way that the map you have could be upside down? That is about the only since I can make of it. I have taken one of your templates and started placing only things we know 100% from the other maps on the show. It is difficult when you already have an idea of where you think everything is.
Yeah, maybe the map is upside down or the season 3 opener was mirrored. It's pretty messy. I feel like I've tried every permutation (always starting from the scratch) but there doesn't seem to be a feasible solution.
I'm looking forward to take a look at your map and would be glad to host it on a top level post (if you want).
For now, I'll also return to the drawing board...
Losty, I have an account now instead of using Anon...
Anyway, let's look at this logically. I think if we make a list of things we know are fact, and things we can only guess at, that might help us. Please feel free to cut and past to add more to these llists. Here is a list of things we know for certain now--
FACT
1. Barracks are South of Cockpit
2. Barracks are within 1 hour running distance to the Tail section
3. Barracks are also near the Arrow
4. Radio Tower is to the East of the Barracks
5. True North & magnetic Norht are not the same
6. Barracks are close to coast line
7. Break up pattern of the plane
things we don't know 100%--
GUESS
1. Direction of the Blast map door (I brought this up before that if drawing it from Swan location, the top of the map may not be North)
2. Position of the Island...NSEW?
3. The layout of island (Dannielle's map is only drawn of what she could see or explore)
Something else to bring into question is Dannielle said she has been on the island for 16 years and never seen the "others", so that makes me feel that she never saw the Barracks or any stations. The Barracks look from S3E1 that they are surrounded by mountains at least on 3 sides (hard to locate). Maybe we can get some help on this...
Hey Doug,
well, I guess it isn't that easy to separate facts from theories (and this is the reason why there's so much space for interpretation). But I think it's a good idea to list all these things up. Then we have a good base for discussion and can understand the individual perspectives. I've also such a list (but only in my mind) and I think this is a good opportunity to write it down. Give me some time to finish it (I'll post everything I have if I didn't manage to complete it today).
Hey Doug,
here's my list of facts so far:
List of facts
Let me know what you think. Direct conclusions are still missing.
The interesting thing to me is Ben's map. It has 5 distinct locations on it. We also have to assume that it is the most accurate of all that we have seen.
Beach Crash Site
Barracks
Pearl
Radio Tower
Pascal Flats
This is where I would start a new map on. Placing these locations and working from there. We don't know how accurate the distances are on his map though. And if this island is so difficult to find from the outside world... a compass must not be very helpful on the island either.
That's exactly what I've tried but without any success. It seems as if nearly all other hints are directly contradicting Ben's map (especially the Pearl and the Barracks)...
Question, if Ben was going to the Survivors then he knew he would probably be captured. And why would he need a map to get around on the island? Maybe it is a fake to confuse the Survivors...
Or, maybe do you think that the Flame and Arrow might be swapped on the BDM? I thought they didn't leave because of contamination????? What do you think?
Positive notes on Ben's map is that he does show the beach camp on a northern (upper) shore line, and the barracks south.
I do think if the BDM is accurate, the Swan is somewhere along the northern shore (north-western?). It makes sense to draw it from your location at the bottom.
Also noticed that what you have labeled as a crater, isn't that the volcano that they talked about? Maybe the same thing.
Hmmm, nice idea about Ben having a fake map with him. Maybe that could be a reasonable explanation. Or maybe just the Barracks and the Pearl are fake on it... But it's really odd to have the note "Beach Camp Crash Site" on it because the Losties left the fuselage crash site and moved up the beach in season 1.
Well, but I think having the camp on the northern shore of the island makes the least sense. There are several reference directly denying this (e.g. about Michael hiking North, Ben's statement about living somewhere at the northern shore when he was captured in the Swan). South or West would be plausible.
My initial theory about the Flame was that it is the crossed out station on the BDM (because of the security barrier note and the remark about the Flame could be "aborted #7").
I also believe that the BDM is accurate, especially the lines on it. These lines could have been used by Radzinsky (who used to explore the island like Inman did) to recover the positions of the different stations. The crater label is from Rousseau's map and I think that the crater might be completely gone (due to eruption/explosion). Nevertheless, it could be the crater on Rousseau's side view map and/or the volcano talked about in school when Ben was a kid..
So I have thought about this in the back of my mind all day long. I looked at all the maps that I could and it hit me??? The most acurate map we have seen to date in my opinion has to be the Dharma Cable Map Sayid found at the Flame. It has a North compass on it, along with a scale. Looking at this I think that the Barracks are approximately 1 1/4 mile wide. I zoomed in several of the screen shots and compared the Barracks layout to the S3E1 opening sequence. By looking at the layout of the Barracks on the map and then comparing the screen shots of the crash, I then could find North (magnetic or not I don't know). The Tail section seems to come down on the Northern side of the island and the Fueselage looks to hit somewhere on the Western coast. This is the most sense I have yet to make of the directions. That should put Jack & the original crew just north of the map you have made?!?! That however should put the Barracks around the Middle or Eastern side of the island (still 1 hour running distance to the Taillies). The Cable Map does also show 2 or 3 underground tunnels leading under the security fence???
The only wall I am running into is that what looks like buildings on the Cable Map, doesn't match up in the number of buildings in the screen shots. I am thinking that the Cable map is showing electrical boxes (normally 1 per two houses in subdivisions), so for every box on the map, 2 houses should be in the screen shot. That fits with my theory, but I would love to hear some feedback on this.
One more thing, I cannot figure out the "bay" area in S3E1 where there is water (ocean?) behind the mountains and in front of the Tail crash. Can you help with this new information?
you are getting warm
Thanks, do you know something (Anon) that we don't? Anyway, I think that the Tail Section crashed off of the North Eastern tip of the island. The Fuselage is probably near the North to North Western beach. The rivers in the BDM in front of the Swan could be the ones at the top of the map (that would mean that the BDM is upside down). The Barracks from Ben's map and S3E1 show it to have dense mountains on the Western side as well as far East/North. That should put them along the Western Range looking North-East at the Tail Crash.
The Radio Tower should be on the Eastern Range as per Ben's map. I don't think the bottom of the island has really been seen yet (Crater) except maybe from the Hydra.
Losty, could you try to make sense of these locations and place them on a map? If it makes any sense, let me know.
Great work, Doug!
First let me add that the issue with the missing houses at the barrack was discussed in Yung's map thread quite a while ago (even with a very nice 3D model). Maybe you should take a look at it if you want to analyse this issue in detail (I don't remember the conclusion of it).
Second, your theory sounds pretty good. Though, it's hard to understand it without a little sketch or something like that. I've still a small sketch back from the days when the Barracks where nick-named Othersville showing my interpretation of the season 3 opener.
Could you draw something like that?
The screenshot posted above also shows where I would assume the bay of the season 3 opener but it also could be some kind of optical illusion caused by the hills on the right side and the virtual lense focus. So maybe what seems to be a bay in that shot could be just an emargination in the coast line seen from above.
Sorry, I posted my last comment before checking my mailbox. Thanks for your map, Doug! Give me some minutes to sort my thoughts.
Your map looks pretty good for the first try. I think the position of the Tail section and the Pearl on your map could be feasible. Though, I'm still very far away from being convinced that the fuselage crash site could be somewhere in the North (because of the aforementioned references). Concerning the position of the Barracks: I believe it has to be significantly closer to the crash site shown in the center of the season 3 opener than to the one behind the mountains.
Plus, just to add another thought: Couldn't it be possible that the right smoking item in the season 3 opener is the fuselage and the one on the left (behind the mountains) the tail section? It may sound weird at first because it is always implied that it is the tail section (and it also seems to be the logical answer) but wouldn't it be a great twist (or maybe I'm just reading too much into it).
Losty, something caught my attention in the S3 final. The "others" were headed to the Temple... and in Ben's map, they were at the Pascal Flats. They must be going South. What if we have never seen the Southern part of the island???? If the Cable map shows the Barracks at approximately 1 mile wide, the island is much longer than I thought. And this explains why it took Desmond so long to circle the island. The S3E1 footage is lookning North West. I think all that we have seen is still on the top half of the island. I will play with the map and send it too you soon.
Doug, the scale of your map is too small. Remember Goodwin only took an hour or less to get to the tail section from the Barracks. You have him crossing half the island. The trek to the radio tower from the beach took 16-24 hours.
About the 3.01 scene, it is my understanding (opinion) that the tail was on the right and the piece of burning wreckage was on the left, and the fuselage was "behind" them and not visible in the final shot.
Losty, you should do a weekly "Map clues in the latest episode"-type post. You could mention things like sawyer's comment about the Barracks being due south, images of the sat-phone map (we should look into this more), time ref's like on Dan's experiment, and Sayid doing his (probably) Noon prayers westward-ish. (unless he was just honoring Naomi or just meditating)
Anonymous.
Doug, thanks for your updated map. I've to admit that I would prefer the second one you sent me (with the fuselage beach camp at the western coast) because of the reasons I posted above.
Anon, yeah I think your opinion about the S03E01 panoramic is also a valid option. So there's much space for individual interpretations in that scene. But Ben's map really gives me a headache...
I really like your idea about the "Recent map clues" post or widget. If this constant stream of map clues keeps up in the next episodes, I'll put it on the clue page. In the meantime, I can recommend to take a look at the 'List of facts' and 'Distance/direction references'.
Hey losty, Mike here,
How have you been. I'm glad to see your back at work with your map. My computer hard drive gave out and I lost a lot of info. Fortunately, I backed up all my LOST files. I lost the E-mail you sent me. I read it, and it had a lot of good information in it. Thanks for sending it. If you saved your outgoing copy, I would really appreciate it if you could E-mail it again. If not, don't worry. My E-mail is MikeQuinn007@msn.com. Thanks
I've also been pretty busy with my map. I've made quite a few posts since the last time we chatted. I not sure if you have seen my posts in reference to resolving the various maps and panoramic view. I think you would would be interested, and I would appreciate any feedback. I also have been placing various journeys and have updated my locations map. Just go thru the appropriate tab on my blog. The trip to the Radio Tower really bothered me. I couldn't understand why the ocean was on their left hand side. I finally figured it out. They went over a mounta